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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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Location: Corrales, NM
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 Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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TetriS, i was trying to find info that either corroborated or disproved Berntsen's claims. All i found were a multitude of news stories that presented it as a valid claim, or a few obviously partisan right-wing blogs claiming it was false. Can you point me to some reliable source that discredited him?
Seriously, i've an open mind on this but just can't find any mention of his story being 'blown out of the water.' i'm usually pretty good at search strings, but maybe in this case i'm not putting an effective one together.
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SSSS
Journeyman
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 3753
Location: Wash PA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:59 am Post subject: |
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CY-I agree the public should be told the reasons for going to war but NOT how it is being faught.
As for your constant implication of lying about it, I will simply restate that when the intelligence was faulty, Bush may have been wrong but he did not lie. You will never agree with that, but you cannot manipulate facts to suit your agenda. And please do not tell me that Bush had the juice to manipulate the intelligence reports from eight different countries.
Has anyone noticed that is no question in anyone's mind that Iran is building a nuke? Is it because everyone believes the president, or is it that we have good intel? Prior to invading Iraq there was also no question.
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Cylinsier
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| SSSS wrote: | CY-I agree the public should be told the reasons for going to war but NOT how it is being faught.
As for your constant implication of lying about it, I will simply restate that when the intelligence was faulty, Bush may have been wrong but he did not lie. You will never agree with that, but you cannot manipulate facts to suit your agenda. And please do not tell me that Bush had the juice to manipulate the intelligence reports from eight different countries. |
Dick Cheney has admitted publicly that he knew the reasons being give for going to Iraq were false. If he knew, we should have known. Its that simple. If Bush was misled, then so be it, but at some point someone figured out that it was misinformation and that was withheld from the rest of us for far too long.
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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Do you mean there was no question about Iran building a nuclear device prior to our invasion of Iraq? Or there was no question about WMDs in Iraq prior to our invasion?
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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He's talking about Iran now.
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Amphikalein
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, i wasn't sure. Wes & i had the opportunity several years ago to talk at length with one of the UN Weapons Inspectors assigned to Iraq, and he was clear that it was certain Iraq had absolutely no active WMD program when we invaded. He didn't talk about what Iran was up to.
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Iran seems to not really want to hide their nuclear reasearch; they are pretty arrogant about it. Although they claim its for enegry, not weapons. Obama said today that they need to let us inspect it because he thinks they're lying, and he has support from the UK AND France on that one.
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Amphikalein
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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i've been certain they're lying ever since they refused the French offer of one of their 'safe' reactors to generate energy.
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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dick
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| SSSS wrote: | | This guy from "the right" has answered that question numerous times. A "win" in Iraq and Afghanistan is the eradication of terrorist groups from any positions of power and the stabilization of the region, while improving the quality of life for the citizens there. |
Yes, and I'd like a million dollars, a Swedish hooker, and a pound of chronic.
Look, all this would be great! But the only way to do this is to take down the Iraqi flag and put up the red, white, and blue. Literally, we would have to colonize the middle east and spend the next hundred years there. And right now, we can hardly take care of the 50 states we have.
| SSSS wrote: |
Cy-I very much disagree that the government should give the people all of the information. There are things pertaining to national security that everyone does not need to know. Actually that is part of the problem fighting terrorists-there is too much information available to them now. |
I agree that we don't need to know everything from our government. While the 3 branches should be completely transparent, the CIA, FBI, and military operations should keep things confidential. The problem that I do have, is to blatently lie. If they want to keep something from us, fine. But don't lie to gain support. |
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phonyfeminazi
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Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 7819
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| SSSS wrote: | CY-I agree the public should be told the reasons for going to war but NOT how it is being faught.
As for your constant implication of lying about it, I will simply restate that when the intelligence was faulty, Bush may have been wrong but he did not lie. You will never agree with that, but you cannot manipulate facts to suit your agenda. And please do not tell me that Bush had the juice to manipulate the intelligence reports from eight different countries.
Has anyone noticed that is no question in anyone's mind that Iran is building a nuke? Is it because everyone believes the president, or is it that we have good intel? Prior to invading Iraq there was also no question. |
SSSS, I think that with the LIBCHIT philosophy, we should return Florida, Phillippines, and a few other pieces of territory to the Spanish.....we started that war with the sinking of the battleship Maine (our own doing)....we lied back then, so why not return the territories to Spain?
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ellipses
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Is the Philippines ours to give away?
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phonyfeminazi
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ellipses wrote: | | Is the Philippines ours to give away? |
Not after we granted them their independence......Gee, imagine how terrible....giving them their independence......
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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| phonyfeminazi wrote: | | ellipses wrote: | | Is the Philippines ours to give away? |
Not after we granted them their independence......Gee, imagine how terrible....giving them their independence...... |
Then why did you say we should return it to the Spanish? 
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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phonyfeminazi
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Joined: 30 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Amphikalein wrote: | | phonyfeminazi wrote: | | ellipses wrote: | | Is the Philippines ours to give away? |
Not after we granted them their independence......Gee, imagine how terrible....giving them their independence...... |
Then why did you say we should return it to the Spanish? |
Because the nation was part of the spoils of war with Spain.....just trying to make a point.....don't get your drawers all twisted.....
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Amphikalein
Journeyman
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing twisted around here is your logic. 
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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