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Cylinsier
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 Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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PCCC says there are 51 Senators who will vote for the Public Option if the House goes first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwGZOzFAmcw
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Brant
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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They should hold their breath while waiting for that to happen.
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ellipses
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't watch your video because I have been in the conference room ALL FREAKIN DAY (this really cuts into my playing around on the internet time)... anyway, did they determine these 51 by compiling "past statements" or are these 51 senators who have said they would vote for it within the past 2 weeks?
I don't count a senator who said he "didn't see anything wrong with the Canadian system" at a cocktail lunch in 1994...
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OndinitaAKALibchit
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ellipses wrote: |
I didn't watch your video because I have been in the conference room ALL FREAKIN DAY (this really cuts into my playing around on the internet time)... anyway, did they determine these 51 by compiling "past statements" or are these 51 senators who have said they would vote for it within the past 2 weeks?
I don't count a senator who said he "didn't see anything wrong with the Canadian system" at a cocktail lunch in 1994... |
Then we only have 5 votes! 
Yeah...I was busy all day giving people the birdie! 
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Its the current 41 plus 9 who have said within the past 2 years that they would support the option if they thought it would pass the House plus Biden I guess.
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busdriver
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Brant
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Sadly, there's a lot of truth in what Cafferty is saying. Who would have thought that Obama's administration would be worse than Bush-Cheney is the realm of open government. It's no wonder that even a lot of liberals are becoming disenchanted with this administration. If you're going to talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk. Instead, they're moonwalking backward:
By SHARON THEIMER , Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Federal agencies haven't lived up to President Barack Obama's promise of a more open government, increasing their use of legal exemptions to keep records secret during his first year in office.
An Associated Press review of Freedom of Information Act reports filed by 17 major agencies found that the use of nearly every one of the law's nine exemptions to withhold information from the public rose in fiscal year 2009, which ended last October.
Among the most frequently used exemptions: one that lets the government hide records that detail its internal decision-making. Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently, but that directive appears to have been widely ignored.
Major agencies cited that exemption at least 70,779 times during the 2009 budget year, up from 47,395 times during President George W. Bush's final full budget year, according to annual FOIA reports filed by federal agencies. Obama was president for nine months in the 2009 period.
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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I must be living in a different country from you. In the America I'm in, Obama's Presidency isn't even close to worse than Bush in the realm of transparency. At worst, it has remained the same. And in a lot of ways, its better. Still, because Obama promised full transparency, everyone is ready to label him the worst President ever when he comes only half as close to that mark as he said he would.
I also don't know any liberals who have become disenchanted with Obama. I know a lot of conservatives who claim its true, and I can't find a media source that's not saying they're out there, but I haven't actually met one.
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OndinitaAKALibchit
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Brant wrote: | Sadly, there's a lot of truth in what Cafferty is saying. Who would have thought that Obama's administration would be worse than Bush-Cheney is the realm of open government. It's no wonder that even a lot of liberals are becoming disenchanted with this administration. If you're going to talk the talk, you've got to walk the walk. Instead, they're moonwalking backward:
By SHARON THEIMER , Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Federal agencies haven't lived up to President Barack Obama's promise of a more open government, increasing their use of legal exemptions to keep records secret during his first year in office.
An Associated Press review of Freedom of Information Act reports filed by 17 major agencies found that the use of nearly every one of the law's nine exemptions to withhold information from the public rose in fiscal year 2009, which ended last October.
Among the most frequently used exemptions: one that lets the government hide records that detail its internal decision-making. Obama specifically directed agencies to stop using that exemption so frequently, but that directive appears to have been widely ignored.
Major agencies cited that exemption at least 70,779 times during the 2009 budget year, up from 47,395 times during President George W. Bush's final full budget year, according to annual FOIA reports filed by federal agencies. Obama was president for nine months in the 2009 period. |
I was just reading an article about this...The article argues that one of the problems is that about 1/3 of the major agencies said that "they had not even put Obama’s new order into action."
http://www.politicususa.com/en/huffpo-obama?awesm=fbshare.me_AK2ev
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Amphikalein
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| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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i wonder how many of the agencies that haven't yet put President Obama's directives into action have (or have had until very recently) administrative vacancies due to the Republican obstructionism against Senate confirmations of nominees?
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phonyfeminazi
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | I must be living in a different country from you. In the America I'm in, Obama's Presidency isn't even close to worse than Bush in the realm of transparency. At worst, it has remained the same. And in a lot of ways, its better. Still, because Obama promised full transparency, everyone is ready to label him the worst President ever when he comes only half as close to that mark as he said he would.
I also don't know any liberals who have become disenchanted with Obama. I know a lot of conservatives who claim its true, and I can't find a media source that's not saying they're out there, but I haven't actually met one. |
So, now, Brant's source is "WRONG"??? Is it because Abomb!, says it's wrong?
LOL, working liberals are frightened to death of the prospect of HIGHER TAXES to pay for this gigantic THEFT......
There are liberals who work......
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busdriver
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | I must be living in a different country from you. In the America I'm in, Obama's Presidency isn't even close to worse than Bush in the realm of transparency. At worst, it has remained the same. And in a lot of ways, its better. Still, because Obama promised full transparency, everyone is ready to label him the worst President ever when he comes only half as close to that mark as he said he would.
I also don't know any liberals who have become disenchanted with Obama. I know a lot of conservatives who claim its true, and I can't find a media source that's not saying they're out there, but I haven't actually met one. |
Look harder Cy, what has "changed"?
The nonsense in banking and on Wall Street is as bad if not worse. There is absolutely no public trust (and rightfully so) of the stock markets(screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me) and the only trading being done is by the same people who caused the initial collapse and now are rewarding themselves with our money.( the bail out etc. money which turned out nothing more then re-stocking the vaults with new money). From AIG, Goldman Sachs down to the pizz heads at PNC who just took 18 million and his sidekick who took 12.5 million the other day.
And this is only a fraction of the failures of this administration, how can you constantly see all of the flowery beauty of failure around us unless you are on LSD or something? |
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| phonyfeminazi wrote: | So, now, Brant's source is "WRONG"??? Is it because Abomb!, says it's wrong?
LOL, working liberals are frightened to death of the prospect of HIGHER TAXES to pay for this gigantic THEFT......
There are liberals who work...... |
Brants shared an opinion. I disagreed with his opinion. Opinions cannot be wrong. This is different from when you state facts that are blatantly incorrect and yet claim they are correct. Its a nuance I wouldn't expect someone with an IQ under 120 to understand, so don't feel bad.
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| busdriver wrote: | Look harder Cy, what has "changed"?
The nonsense in banking and on Wall Street is as bad if not worse. |
Its not worse. It may be equally as bad but at least they are under more heavy scrutiny now than they were before. And while this administration's initial response to their behavior was decidedly vanilla, they are on thin ice. If they so much as sneeze crooked, I would expect a harsh penalty. If there isn't one, then I will be convinced this administration is a failure at addressing the Wall Street problem.
| busdriver wrote: | | There is absolutely no public trust (and rightfully so) of the stock markets(screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me) and the only trading being done is by the same people who caused the initial collapse and now are rewarding themselves with our money.( the bail out etc. money which turned out nothing more then re-stocking the vaults with new money). |
Speak for yourself, bus. I made about 2 k in the market last year (which made me break even with the 2 k I lost following the initial crash). The market is shaky, but no more so than it is about every half decade. The initial crash is over. If people don't trust the stock market right now, there just being cautious, but its not going to crash again anytime soon.
| busdriver wrote: | | From AIG, Goldman Sachs down to the pizz heads at PNC who just took 18 million and his sidekick who took 12.5 million the other day. |
I get the point. You don't like capitalism. That's good. Neither do I right now.
| busdriver wrote: | | And this is only a fraction of the failures of this administration, how can you constantly see all of the flowery beauty of failure around us unless you are on LSD or something? |
Yeah, if this is only a fraction of the failures, then give me some more. Enlighten me. Sorry, but I'm not buying the doom and gloom "worse than Bush" line, because its bullchit. I wouldn't go back to Bush after 100 years of Obama.
I don't believe this administration is perfect. There are a lot of things I don't approve of. If you're asking me, the greatest failure of this administration so far by a long shot is that we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan. There is no justification for that cost, both in tax dollars and human lives. And unlike most of the things the media tries to stick on Obama, that's actually something he can change with the stroke of a pen. That he hasn't indicates a weakness that I didn't expect from him.
Other than that, the so-called failures have been relatively insignificant compared to the previous administration. Gitmo remains open. DADT remains in effect. Health insurance reform is still in limbo. We're over a year in and immigration reform hasn't even been put on the table. Cap and trade has become another battleground. But anyone who remembers their third grade civics class can tell you these things have just as much if not more to do with Congress than they do with the President. Americans have a short memory. They only remember Bush calling the shots for 6 of his 8 years in office. Well, guess what? He wasn't supposed to be doing that. He majorly overstepped his bounds, as did Cheney, in attempting to lead Congress around by the nose. Obama has restored the office to its original role as executive branch only, but people have forgotten what "separation of powers" means.
When I voted for Obama I thought, as I believe most who voted for him thought, that I was electing a leader who would return the office of the Presidency to what it was supposed to be and address a range of social and economic issues that had been piling up for eight years. Also like most people, while emotionally aroused by his rhetoric, I was smart enough to know that he wasn't going to address every single issue I wanted him to, he wasn't going to get to anything very quickly, and he was going to face an uphill battle most of the way. Anyone who actually voted for him and didn't realize all this needs to learn a valuable lesson about setting unrealistic expectations. I don't think its too much to ask the public understand what is humanly possible in any given political atmosphere and not hold a President to an overzealous agenda that Jesus himself couldn't accomplish. But maybe I'm being idealistic.
The point is this: even if Obama accomplishes nothing from this point forward, even if we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2012 and even if he is not reelected, he will be a better President in my eyes than Bush as long as he stays his current course. I'm smart enough to know when blame should fall on a President and when it should fall on an ineffective legislature that would rather play political Risk than pass a bill. But with the last President, it was a matter of dreading every single piece of legislation he wanted to put down by the end. I disagreed with Bush's direction for the country at almost every turn. The best moments of his Presidency for me were when bills didn't make it through, because damage was averted. With Obama, we may not go anywhere, but at least we're pointed in the right direction.
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Brant
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I also don't know any liberals who have become disenchanted with Obama. I know a lot of conservatives who claim its true, and I can't find a media source that's not saying they're out there, but I haven't actually met one. |
Stop by the office and say hi sometime, Cy. Then you can say you've met a liberal who is disenchanted with Obama.
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