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spike
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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 Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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[quote]The arguably orthodox position is that Christians are "saved by grace" and "justified by faith". In other words, salvation is God's gift, but it requires some faith to accept that gift. Good works are supposed to be the byproduct of salvation and an active faith. Humans can't earn their salvation - that's an old heresy called Pelagianism.
[/quote] Yeah, this is the right meaning of good works. Thanks!
[quote]Spike, you either believe or you don't. A person can't will himself to believe what he doesn't. It would be like me willing myself to be Asian. I can try all I want, but it ain't going to happen.
Brant, its more simple than you are making it---try fakin it till you make it.You make sooo many arguments against it---just lay down your ways...and find a way to believe. Or dont, I am just responding to your comment-not tryin to preach.[/quote]
Last edited by spike on Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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"that other poster" happens to be a Christian, too, spike.
Who knows what heaven will be like - i'd argue that being a Christian is more about opening to the possibility of the Kingdom of God right here & now.
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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spike
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Thats neat. I like it. But, it goes against my churchs belief and thus mine. There is an afterlife to come. Its that I aim towards. I pray I make it, but,Ive got some learning and growing to do yet. |
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OndinitaAKALibchit
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 3883
Location: Where the sun don't shine! ;-)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| spike wrote: | | Quote: | The arguably orthodox position is that Christians are "saved by grace" and "justified by faith". In other words, salvation is God's gift, but it requires some faith to accept that gift. Good works are supposed to be the byproduct of salvation and an active faith. Humans can't earn their salvation - that's an old heresy called Pelagianism.
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Yeah, this is the right meaning of good works. Thanks! |
Yeah...As I said, that's not what the Bible says. That's not "the right meaning". It's someone's interpretation of the Bible & it actually contradicts Jesus' teachings. Why would God want a faith that is empty? Empty faith is useless, fruitless and it doesn't save. My dad, whose a Theologist, always says that, "Real faith results in true works." As I stated before, Jesus said, "You will know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:17 Faith alone doesn't produce "fruits".
Jesus also said that the way to obtain eternal life is by keeping God's commandments:
"And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:16-17)
James also clearly says that faith alone doesn't save:
"You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)
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"If by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties ... if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I’m proud to say I’m a 'Liberal.'" ~ Senator John F. Kennedy 9/14/1960
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OndinitaAKALibchit
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Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 3883
Location: Where the sun don't shine! ;-)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Amphikalein wrote: | | Who knows what heaven will be like - i'd argue that being a Christian is more about opening to the possibility of the Kingdom of God right here & now. |
Exactly!
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"If by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties ... if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I’m proud to say I’m a 'Liberal.'" ~ Senator John F. Kennedy 9/14/1960
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freethinker
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Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Psyche, hope you're still reading...For the record -- you just got befriended by those who object to your holier-than-thou intolerance...4 People --
a straight Christian, a staunch atheist, a pretty Universalist, and a gay Episcopalian...You gotta admit, you can't get more polyphonic than that...
The other three could explain it better than me -- and I certainly am not speaking for them --
but THAT is the whole point...
I will not attempt to convert or condemn my brothers who don't echo my version of sanctity. I share your belief in Jesus, but I do not speak on His behalf, and neither do you.
Please work with me, to maintain an image of Christ that is tolerant, loving....
And forgiving
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where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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Brant
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 5277
Location: Hopewell Township
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Amph, what are you going to do about that "lifestyle" of yours? 
_________________
The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Brant wrote: | | Amph, what are you going to do about that "lifestyle" of yours? |
i don't know. Maybe explore if i have a call to the diaconate? Or (hopefully) get married to Wes - in church, no less.
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
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spike
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 2030
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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My friend Jim is young, but he's already a veteran rock climber. Now he's going to college only a few miles from one of America's most majestic mountain peaks...and one of the most challenging and dangerous to climb. He was excited to climb another towering mountain with a longtime veteran of those slopes. The mountain is actually part of the highest peak, but it's known as Disappointment Peak. It got its name from climbers who used that approach to get to the top of that ultimate mountain top. It's a tough climb, but you're inspired by the sense that you're getting closer and closer to your majestic goal. And then, after a long, hard climb, you suddenly come to this chasm; a chasm that is un-crossable and thousands of feet deep. You thought you were on your way to the goal you were shooting for. Sorry, it's Disappointment Peak.
I'm Ron Hutchcraft and I want to have A Word With You today about "Tired of Searching, Ready to Find."
A lot of people are climbing Disappointment Peak; a long road to what they believe will be the mountaintop they're looking for. But as many who have climbed it will tell you, it really does lead to disappointment instead of fulfillment. Of course, we're all looking for different mountaintops: the relationship that will give us the real and lasting love we want so much, or that accomplishment that will give us the importance, the significance we're hoping for, the religion or spirituality that will finally give us peace in our soul.
We're all looking for different things, but we're all looking for what will give life real meaning, love and fulfillment. Gail Sheehy became a best-selling author decades ago with her book, "Passages." It described our life journeys in terms of passages from one search to another. Now she's writing about the generation that has shaped our culture and our values more than any other - the Baby Boomers. She said recently, "The search for meaning has become the universal occupation of the Second Adulthood." She says that this spiritual imperative grows stronger as we grow older. So our searching doesn't diminish; it only intensifies.
But maybe you are tired of searching. You're ready to find. You're tired of Disappointment Peak. You're ready to find what your soul's been looking for so long. Actually, there's only one person who can tell us what we're here for. It's the One who put us here. Of course, that's God. And in the world's best-selling book, the Bible - the only book God ever wrote - He reveals the top of the mountain we were made for...the reason He put us here.
In Colossians 1:16, our word for today from the Word of God, it simply says, speaking of Jesus Christ, that we were "created by Him and for Him." You were created by Jesus, you were created for Jesus, and you're going to have a hole in your heart until you have Jesus. He said, "He who comes to Me will never go hungry, and he who believes in Me will never be thirsty" (John 6:35).
The Bible reveals that our heart is searching because we're away from the God we were made for. We were created for Him, but we've lived for ourselves, thus creating an un-crossable chasm between us and the God who made us. Un-crossable except for the cross - the cross where Jesus died to pay for our rebellion against God and make a way back to Him. In the sentences that follow the revelation that we were "created by Him and for Him," we read that Jesus "made peace (with God) through His blood, shed on the cross." It took that sacrifice to provide a way to the God who is the love and the meaning we've been looking for. Across that chasm between God and us is now a bridge - the cross of Jesus.
He's the end of your lifelong search. And the Savior will become your Savior the day you reach for Him and tell Him, "Jesus, you're the One I've been looking for. I've done my life my way, not Your way, and I resign from running my life. It's time You did. I was made by You and for You. And beginning this day, I am Yours." If you're tired of searching; if you're ready to find home, I want to invite you to our website where I've put a brief explanation of how you can begin with Jesus. The website is YoursForLife.net.
You've wasted enough time on Disappointment Peak, but a climb up one more hill can take you where you want to be. The hill where Jesus died for you - that's where your search finally ends. |
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Brant
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Location: Hopewell Township
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm already on Happy Hill (at least when all this snow melts).
_________________
The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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spike
Professional
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 2030
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh well, I sure dont feel much concern from anyone here.Its a judgemental place. This person has felt judged and not worthy of being talked with in any friendly way. How was your Christianity obvious? It wasnt. Sarcasim, ridicule, and being laughed at. Nice. Thanks. |
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spike
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Posts: 2030
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by spike on Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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spike
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Posts: 2030
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Amphikalein"][quote="Brant"]Amph, what are you going to do about that "lifestyle" of yours? [/quote]i don't know. Maybe explore if i have a call to the diaconate? Or (hopefully) get married to Wes - in church, no less.[/quote]
OR, find a female who you could be with? Oh, the possibilities. |
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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| spike wrote: | | Oh well, I sure dont feel much concern from anyone here.Its a judgemental place. This person has felt judged and not worthy of being talked with in any friendly way. How was your Christianity obvious? It wasnt. Sarcasim, ridicule, and being laughed at. Nice. Thanks. |
Don't start none, won't be none.
Rather than climbing 'disappointment peak', i'd rather walk through the world, especially where people are in need, with Christ walking beside me. For me, He's less a destination at the end of a climb than someone who walks with me wherever i go.
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
Amphy's blog | Proud Member NDA
Last edited by Amphikalein on Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| spike wrote: | | Amphikalein wrote: | | Brant wrote: | | Amph, what are you going to do about that "lifestyle" of yours? |
i don't know. Maybe explore if i have a call to the diaconate? Or (hopefully) get married to Wes - in church, no less. |
OR, find a female who you could be with? Oh, the possibilities. |
But that would be living a lie, and not part of God's plan for me. Or are you saying you know better than i what God means in my life?
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
Amphy's blog | Proud Member NDA |
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