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Cylinsier
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
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 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| george wrote: | I have never said there should not be welfare. It is needed but should be a short trem limited offer. Good for say 5 -7 years in your lifetime, no more.
It's like unemployement. Its needed but too many people sit on unemployement instead of looking for a job on day one. Its like a vacation. Too many people sit on welfare rather that look for a job. They work very hard to move form welfare to SSI because it pay better and is a lifetime check. |
It is limited in large part. That's why they call it Temporary Assistance for Needy Families.
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ellipses
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you can't be retarded about it, either... but if you offer 18.5 on a 20k car, you have a good shot at getting it.
Offer 235 on a house that is listed for 250 and you have a good chance of getting it. It's not guaranteed, but you definitely don't have to pay sticker for EVERYTHING.
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Cylinsier
Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| george wrote: | | I can demand all I want. If the seller refuses, I don't get anything. No one was buying GM cars and they did not greatly reduce the prices. You could not walk in to a GM dealer and demand a 20,000 car for 12,000. |
Not a good comparison. For one, a car costs probably close to 20,000 dollars to make when you take into account all costs to get it from raw materials to the lot. If dealers don't at least break even, they go under.
Insurance is a piece of paper and a promise (that is often broken) to pay if need be. Insurance companies could sell policies for half the price they are now or less and still turn a profit.
But I agree with you george for a different reason. If a car were being sold for far more than its worth, then you could demand a lower price and eventually get it. This is because at the end of the day, if you don't like the price, you can walk away. You can travel by foot, bike, bus, etc. You don't have to have a car.
Health insurance is something you basically have to have if you get sick. The irony is, unlike the auto industry, the insurance industry has plenty of cushion to decrease prices, but also unlike the auto industry, they have no incentive. Nothing is stopping them from asking whatever price they want because people have to pay it. And on top of that, they revoke coverage whenever possible when you need to collect. That's like buying a car and then when you wake up for work Monday, GM comes back and repossesses it, saying you are covered for work commutes.
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dick
Journeyman
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 3134
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| george wrote: |
I just heard on the news that they plan being voted on today will tax "cadallic" health plans. Thats any plan now offered by major employers such as coal mines, GM, etc. That will include me. See I told you it would cost me, not save me money. |
The report on the news is referring to a study done by consulting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers for America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP). PWC released the following statement today:
| Quote: | America’s Health Insurance Plans engaged PricewaterhouseCoopers to prepare a report that focused on four components of the Senate Finance Committee proposal:
· Insurance market reforms and consumer protections that would raise health insurance premiums for individuals and families if the reforms are not coupled with an effective coverage requirement.
· An excise tax on employer-sponsored high value health plans.
· Cuts in payment rates in public programs that could increase cost shifting to private sector businesses and consumers.
· New taxes on health sector entities.
The analysis concluded that collectively the four provisions would raise premiums for private health insurance coverage. As the report itself acknowledges, other provisions that are part of health reform proposals were not included in the PwC analysis. The report stated on page 1:
“The reform packages under consideration have other provisions that we have not included in this analysis. We have not estimated the impact of the new subsidies on the net insurance cost to households. Also, if other provisions in health care reform are successful in lowering costs over the long term, those improvements would offset some of the impacts we have estimated.”
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In other words, we (PWC) did what they (AHIP) asked and nothing more. You should not interpret anything in the report to be representative of what will occur in the real world.
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freethinker
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Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Are you for real, or a figment of my Irish imagination...?
My question to you, re-stated here, is would you
advise Jesus Christ to stop whining and to
go get a better job...?
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george
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 426
Location: washington
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| ellipses wrote: | Well, you can't be retarded about it, either... but if you offer 18.5 on a 20k car, you have a good shot at getting it.
Offer 235 on a house that is listed for 250 and you have a good chance of getting it. It's not guaranteed, but you definitely don't have to pay sticker for EVERYTHING. |
You said to demand! Thats making an offer that may be reected.
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george
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Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 426
Location: washington
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | | george wrote: | I have never said there should not be welfare. It is needed but should be a short trem limited offer. Good for say 5 -7 years in your lifetime, no more.
It's like unemployement. Its needed but too many people sit on unemployement instead of looking for a job on day one. Its like a vacation. Too many people sit on welfare rather that look for a job. They work very hard to move form welfare to SSI because it pay better and is a lifetime check. |
It is limited in large part. That's why they call it Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. |
Its should be limited competly, not in large part. And SSI should be limited to those injured and unable to work, not druggies ,drunks or retards.
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ellipses
Mod
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Location: WashPa!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| george wrote: | | ellipses wrote: | Well, you can't be retarded about it, either... but if you offer 18.5 on a 20k car, you have a good shot at getting it.
Offer 235 on a house that is listed for 250 and you have a good chance of getting it. It's not guaranteed, but you definitely don't have to pay sticker for EVERYTHING. |
You said to demand! Thats making an offer that may be reected. |
I didn't mean demand as in "give it to me now!" I meant demand in terms of supply and demand... I want it, this is what I'm willing to pay... so either sell it to me at that price or don't sell it.
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Brant
Admin
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Hopewell Township
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Now George wants to cast aside retarded people and, apparently, just let them die in the streets. That's one of the sickest, most hateful things I've heard in a long time. If there's a hell, I'd advise you to leave directions for your loved ones to dress you lightly for your burial.
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freethinker
Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: hardback chair
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Dear Brant,
Please excuse Mister George, he's just trying to be inciteful...
(Now we'll wait as George looks that word up in his redneck
dicksonairy..)
I'll be gone for awhile...gotta go earn money to pay for other
people's health insurance...
Please keep this thread twisting and turning...color it and spin it
and weave it into something beautiful...love you all...even you,
Mister George.
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Amphikalein
Journeyman
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
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is anyone surprised by george's screed? It's been pointed out before that he's of the "i got mine, screw you" persuasion. i think it would be a good idea to let folks like that opt out permanently of all social programs. If and when something unfortunate & unplanned happens to them somewhere down the road and they find pulling on their own bootstraps isn't getting them anywhere, a societal majority can then tell them, "screw you, we got ours."
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george
Apprentice
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 426
Location: washington
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Brant wrote: | | Now George wants to cast aside retarded people and, apparently, just let them die in the streets. That's one of the sickest, most hateful things I've heard in a long time. If there's a hell, I'd advise you to leave directions for your loved ones to dress you lightly for your burial. |
Here you go again. The family should take care of them or institutionlize them. I get angry everytime I hear a defense attorney make a clain the the killers IQ is so low he is not compentent to either stand trial or get the death penalty. If these people are so stupid they they can't ever be heald reponsible why are they allow out by themselves and why should we pay them.
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george
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Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 426
Location: washington
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | | george wrote: | | I can demand all I want. If the seller refuses, I don't get anything. No one was buying GM cars and they did not greatly reduce the prices. You could not walk in to a GM dealer and demand a 20,000 car for 12,000. |
Not a good comparison. For one, a car costs probably close to 20,000 dollars to make when you take into account all costs to get it from raw materials to the lot. If dealers don't at least break even, they go under.
Insurance is a piece of paper and a promise (that is often broken) to pay if need be. Insurance companies could sell policies for half the price they are now or less and still turn a profit.
But I agree with you george for a different reason. If a car were being sold for far more than its worth, then you could demand a lower price and eventually get it. This is because at the end of the day, if you don't like the price, you can walk away. You can travel by foot, bike, bus, etc. You don't have to have a car.
Health insurance is something you basically have to have if you get sick. The irony is, unlike the auto industry, the insurance industry has plenty of cushion to decrease prices, but also unlike the auto industry, they have no incentive. Nothing is stopping them from asking whatever price they want because people have to pay it. And on top of that, they revoke coverage whenever possible when you need to collect. That's like buying a car and then when you wake up for work Monday, GM comes back and repossesses it, saying you are covered for work commutes. |
So, you justify the cost of a car because of the cost of the materials that were driven up by union demands all the way to the raw material. Hospitals also have material cost (equipment, drugs, doctor fees, union wages for nurses, and any other employees,waste disposal, etc). We may demand a lower price, which insurance firms do but we won't get care for half price
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Cylinsier
Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I justify the cost of a car because it is in many ways an optional purchase. Health is normally not optional. Things that are optional = free market capitalism ftw. Things that are not optional = socialism or bust. That's basically how the world should be run.
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amom
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: You can't get here from there
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| george wrote: | | Brant wrote: | | Now George wants to cast aside retarded people and, apparently, just let them die in the streets. That's one of the sickest, most hateful things I've heard in a long time. If there's a hell, I'd advise you to leave directions for your loved ones to dress you lightly for your burial. |
Here you go again. The family should take care of them or institutionlize them. I get angry everytime I hear a defense attorney make a clain the the killers IQ is so low he is not compentent to either stand trial or get the death penalty. If these people are so stupid they they can't ever be heald reponsible why are they allow out by themselves and why should we pay them. |
I have a good friend with a "retarded" son. She applied for SSI for him when he reached 21 so that when she and her husband are dead, there will be money there for him to be able to arrange for his care. George, you are the most uncaring person I have even heard.
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