 |
Observer-Reporter forum
Observer-Reporter discussion forums
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dick
Journeyman
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 3134
|
 Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I'd rather be a fountain of beer, but I'll take what I can get. I'm usually tuned in to Howard 100 or Howard 101.
I seemed to have misplaced half of my Twix. I'm trying to convince myself that I ate it already, but I know its around here somewhere. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Amphikalein
Journeyman
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Corrales, NM
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mmmmmm. Beer. 
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
Amphy's blog | Proud Member NDA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ellipses
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9218
Location: WashPa!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I saw the little "new post" marker... and saw that it was from you... and I was all like "Yay! Answers to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything!"
Then I clicked it and it just said "Mmmmmm. Beer. "
Which... I guess is sorta like the same thing, if you think about it 
At least from my perspective...
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cylinsier
Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, beer is proof that god loves us...still the most compelling argument I've heard to date.
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ellipses
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9218
Location: WashPa!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
God cannot love us
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cylinsier
Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After enough beer, anything can love you.
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ellipses
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9218
Location: WashPa!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You calling me a fat chick?
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cylinsier
Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What if I am? You want we should take this outside for fisticuffs?
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ellipses
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9218
Location: WashPa!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Why I oughtta!
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Amphikalein
Journeyman
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Corrales, NM
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Basic questions about Christianity |
|
|
i'm going to try an tackle ellipses & Brant's questions one at a time. But first a disclaimer. i don't profess to speak with any authority - all i can do is share the perspective i have at this time.
| ellipses wrote: | | 1. On the issue of the Bible being the actual word of God... Which parts are to be taken literally and which parts are to be taken metaphorically? Why? Why can we say that some parts are representative while other parts are the absolute commandment from God? |
First off, i'm not a literalist. While i'm comfortable referring to the Bible as the Word of God, i don't consider it to be the actual "words" of God. The book, as a whole, is an attempt to convey something that is ineffable. When i say it's "God breathed" i mean that some understandings and meaning of the relationship between the Judeo-Christian God and His people still come through, despite having been written and endlessly interpreted by fallible human beings. Consider my view of the Bible as having some roots in mysticism.
My personal feeling is that if a reader is trying to discern meaning from the Bible, they're far better off considering much of it as metaphor, even when it describes actual events. When people claim to be literalists, what i think they eventually end up doing is reading their own understandings (and often prejudices) into the existing text. It's not only an inspiring and insightful book, it can also be a very dangerous book.
According to some historians, the first Christian canon of the Bible was sanctioned in the late 4th century, CE. Before and after that other councils argued about which writings should be included and which should not be. Add into that mix all the translations and versions that have developed to the present day. Who's to say what's 'literal' given all those competing canons, versions and translations?
i currently am most comfortable using the latest Oxford New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) Study Bible, with apocrypha. It was developed with the aim of creating a balance between accuracy of translation from the earliest extant texts and readability. There are TONS of footnotes and each book starts with an introductory commentary based upon the latest academic opinions of historical and cultural contexts as well as well-respected exegesis.
As far as absolute commandments from God, the Biblical commandments i'm most comfortable regarding as absolute are the two that are recorded as coming from Jesus himself: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul & mind; and, Love your neighbor as yourself. The Decalogue (ten commandments) are largely encapsulated by those two, so i'm cool thinking of them in terms of absolutes as well.
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
Amphy's blog | Proud Member NDA
Last edited by Amphikalein on Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busdriver
Journeyman
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 3497
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ellipses wrote: | | Dude, I'm serious! Is CNN on the radio? |
Boy, E, your youth is really showing, I don't know if it still is on the radio airwaves, but that was the snapback when phony  and I  were in your age bracket, and someone just ran on and on at the mouth.
By the way, I asked you how do I put a picture on like you have your Seasame Street E and how do I find the sight that has the URL that works on here? I asked Mo, but she never replied, maybe she dosen't know.
Also can you post a real picture of yourself, I may use that?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ellipses
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9218
Location: WashPa!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Re: religion
This conversation is going to end up being very big... i can feel it. every question spawns another... and every response spawns at least 2 questions.
I wish I had a tree of knowledge of good and evil...
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Amphikalein
Journeyman
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Corrales, NM
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i think it's far more interesting & rewarding to keep coming up with more & more questions than it is to stop and think you've reached an unchanging answer.
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
Amphy's blog | Proud Member NDA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ellipses
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 9218
Location: WashPa!
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Absolutely...
And for some background on my perspective on Christianity--
My academic hobby is Chaucerian Literature... The bulk of my education was in medieval english literature, classical philosophy and christian theology insomuch as it is reflected in secular literature.
When I look at the bible and the tradition that is christianity, I see a pixelated quilt of a story that is built on the bones of Greek philosophy, Egyptian religion, Roman politics, and european biases and superstition.
Forgetting religion for a moment... Humankind is relatively uncreative in terms of our narratives. Sure, we have countless stories, but the basic formulas are fairly stagnant... consider every "chick flick" you've EVER seen...
Boy meets girl
Boy wants girl
Block
Unblock
Boy gets girl
Change the names, the location, the obstacles, and throw in a few zingers and viola! New story.
The "Story" of christianity is a stack of retold stories... Horace and Isis = Mary and Jesus, Noah and the Flood = Epic of Gilgamesh, Adam and Eve = Demeter and Persephone, GOD = Aristotle's Prime Mover
When we see a repetition of a story like that of the flood, some people take that as evidence that it is TRUE... if asians and south american indians and arabs and akadians and jews all have a flood story, it MUST mean that there was a great flood...
Yeah, either that or the fact that humanity is completely dependent on water... civilization tends to grow up around rivers... and there is an artistic dichotomy between life-giving waters, and life-shattering floods... it isn't THAT much of a leap to think that different cultures could conceive of a "mother of all floods" scenario independently.
Hell, western europeans were telling stories about knights slaying dragons CENTURIES before Marco Polo went to China and saw chinese people representing dragons in their art and performances... Does that mean there were dragons? No! But it's a "good character" and give enough people enough time, they will come up with a dragonic creature.
So anyway... great story, overall...
But there are very basic things that must be resolved before granting the bible any particular place of honor...
1. Is there a god?
This is where my atheism falters... my answer: maybe... Aristotle's logical deduction is a strong case for a prime mover... but the first action is the ONLY thing in the history of ALL THAT IS that "requires" God. For everything that comes after, God is not necessary.
2. Does God have anything to do with us? This boils down to a matter of perspective... Why are we to believe that God is concerned with us? If I covet my neighbor's ass, of what consequence is that to God? We are absolutely teensy tiny... And, as we are finding out, we are increasingly less likely to be "alone"... so, if there are sentient beings out there somewhere, what does that do for our relationship to god? Which of us is created in God's image? What if they have a whole bunch of other gods? what if their gods are more logically devised than ours? What if their gods make their existence known? What if they figured out that there isn't really a "God" in the terms of the way we conceive of God?
3. Is Jesus REALLY the son of God? Why? Again... back to the perspective issue... Why then? Why there? Why Jesus? I mean, really... his name wasn't even "Jesus"--- or that white trash pronounciation "Jee-ziz"... It was more like "Ee-ay-schwey"--- but really, modern man has been around for up to 500,000 years... It seems kinda arbitrary that God would plop down where it is said that he did when he is said to have done it... And beyond that... virgin birth? Really? Resurrection? Really? It's like the chicken and the egg thing... I am not naturally predisposed to believe the bible... it's almost like I have to believe the Jesus stuff first in order to believe the bible... but I have to believe the bible in order to believe the Jesus stuff... and none of the supernatural stuff is really all that believable... Christianity starts and ends at "Jesus was the son of God"... but unfortunately, that's where you lose me.
4. "And God said this and God said that..." Did he really?
I wonder what I missed while I was typing all this crap?
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cylinsier
Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The chick flick really is the most unoriginal genre.
_________________
The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
