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dick Journeyman
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 3134
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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freethinker wrote: | Well said, Amph...It's also a logical fallacy to assume that higher education produces greater intelligence...I could give some personal examples, but you've seen them on the Leno show...And it's a proven fact that the modern human brain is capable of the same deductive reasoning as a Cro-Magnon...
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The fact that we have more books on our shelves, does not make us smarter....Though our ancestors could not program a Blackberry, they were not stupid, and they faced the same philosophical questions that we do...Why are we here...? Where are we going...? What do I teach to my aggressive and unruly children...?
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There will always be stupid and ignorant people. But the sum of knowledge in today's leaders is far greater than the sum of leaders past. I also think its possible that the brain evolves. For a few hundred years now, civilized people have been training their minds to retain knowledge. Possibly tweaking the chromosoms in their offspring and creating the ability to be smarter than the previous generation.... just a theory.
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And dick, to claim that spiritual belief has stifled scientific understanding, contradicts all human history....Add it up -- The majority of people are religious, and scientific advancement is still increasing...
And it's quite ironic that you use yourself as an example against
Christian teaching, when you are, in fact, one of the sharpest knives in this forum's drawer.....Something must have worked, doncha think? |
You're right, I concede that arguement. I'm an amazing person, and I have my Catholic upbringing to thank. With out it, I would not be able to decypher BS with such efficiency. My blade is actually fairly dull. I use this forum to keep myself somewhat sharp... but thanks for the compliment. I definitely enjoy your perspective as well. _________________
Proud Member NDA
Its okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
Puff. Puff. Give. |
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Cylinsier Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Brant wrote: | Aside from medical advances, I'm not so sure our lives have improved over the last 100 years. |
The sharing of information would be huge. Communication is another. Method and speed of travel. Safety from the elements. And our general understanding of the world around us. I think it expands beyond just medical advances. If I said you could keep penicillin but had to go back to when the world was flat and people were burned at the stake for being witches, would you? _________________ The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
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freethinker Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: hardback chair
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Cy, one quick question --- "Where did that 'progress'.. Come from..?"
The second law of thermodynamics demands that all open systems approach greater disorder, yet you just demonstrated a violation of this law in scientific evolution... Speak out.... Is the progress random, or is it directed...? _________________ where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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ellipses Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | If I said you could keep penicillin but had to go back to when the world was flat and people were burned at the stake for being witches, would you? |
Palin '12!!!! _________________ The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
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Cylinsier Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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freethinker wrote: | Cy, one quick question --- "Where did that 'progress'.. Come from..?"
The second law of thermodynamics demands that all open systems approach greater disorder, yet you just demonstrated a violation of this law in scientific evolution... Speak out.... Is the progress random, or is it directed...? |
You're trying to apply a law used to explain natural processes to a system in which self-aware, sentient beings assert control. The progress is directed by mankind. The laws of thermodynamics do not take into account systems which consistent of sentient entities. _________________ The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
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freethinker Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: hardback chair
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Then explain how insentient matter, i.e. "dirt" could evolve into a living cell without supernatural help...Oh sorry, I broke the thread _________________ where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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Cylinsier Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Everything, even sentient beings, are composed of the same basic building blocks at the smallest level. It was just a matter of the right chemicals mixing at the right time. Then you get a molecule, and that molecule becomes a cell, and that cell begins dividing to duplicate itself. It seems unbelievable, but tell me what makes more sense:
A rock breaks open to reveal a flower, or a magic wizard pisses on a rock and breaks it open to reveal a flower? If the system is so unbelievable as is, why is adding another even more unbelievable aspect supposed to make it suddenly okay? Amazing things can happen without something amazing making them happen. _________________ The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
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Brant Admin
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 5277 Location: Hopewell Township
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Cy, I'm only talking about going back 100 years, not the "dark ages." Somehow I think if folks had the medical advances but could live the lives they did in those days, they'd be pretty happy. _________________
The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.
- Thomas Jefferson |
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Cylinsier Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I would commit suicide if I didn't have the internet. _________________ The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
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Cylinsier Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-
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freethinker Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: hardback chair
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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I reply thusly,
Sir Fred Hoyle, who not only coined the term "big bang", but also discovered the details of nucleo-synthesis and proved how carbon is created...(The base of all life forms, as you well know) became a committed spiritualist, and claimed that his discoveries proved to him, that someone had been "Monkeying with the controls of the universe.."
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Dr.Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA double helix, refuses to accept that it arose on its own, and supports a theory of interstellar contamination...
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I could go on, but it would belabor my point....I am free to teach my children of Christianity, without the sufferance of shame _________________ where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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Cylinsier Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, many great minds were still believers. Yet that does not prove what they believed to be true. While they put significant scientific work into proving their professional theories, their spiritual theories remain unproven as they have always been and as they always will be.
I do not think you should be ashamed to teach your children Christianity, but perhaps you should be ashamed to teach them without a doubt that it is correct. I will teach my kids about the full range of faiths available to them as they grow, and also remind them that they need not feel obligated to subscribe to a single one. _________________ The end is nigh! OR forums die APRIL 1. Don't lose contact! Join the forums at bogsource.com now! |
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dick Journeyman
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 3134
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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freethinker wrote: | I am free to teach my children of Christianity, without the sufferance of shame |
No shame is meant. By participating in this forum, we are all subjected to an open dialogue on religion. This has sent quite a few forum members back to watching game shows and soap operas. _________________
Proud Member NDA
Its okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
Puff. Puff. Give. |
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freethinker Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: hardback chair
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Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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thank you, dick...And though you did hurt my feelings when you said i was acting holier than thou, and that I was looking down on others, I guess you were speaking in frustration; Because no words of mine that were used here, could be repeated to defend such an accusation, unless it is attached to an ambiguous and personal assumption...Don't worry, I forgive you, my son....(Yes, the last line was a joke.)
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And Cy, your pride in accumulated community knowledge, and your opinion that it is superior to ancient beliefs, rings hollow to my ears...
If I took you back five thousand years, and dropped you alone in the Alps, would you survive...? I doubt it, not without the accumulated community knowledge of that time period...So, it is not a difference of degree, but a difference in kind...They were just as smart as we
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I stand, still, with my invisible fathers, and sing their Requiem _________________ where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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Professor Apprentice
Joined: 03 Dec 2008 Posts: 358
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Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Those longing for the good old days forget that 100 years ago the majority of the working class worked long hours for very little pay and no benefits. If you got sick or hurt and couldn't work that was your family's tough luck and there were no safety standards! _________________
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