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ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

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busdriver · Journeyman Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 3497

ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

Obama's tax policy is the "compare at" numbers... so when it says that Ryan's plan would increase a household's taxes by 1,367 (if you make between 53-88k)... then the "obama number" would be the number less 1,367.

Obama's numbers are the base
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busdriver · Journeyman Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 3497

ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

That top range of people would see an average increase in their personal income taxes of 47 dollars. Their corporate and estate taxes would decrease by an average of 78 dollars (these are averages, across the board. Individuals would see varying differences)... Their sales taxes would increase by 1,605 dollars... so, the net difference is an increase in taxes of 1,605 for people whose average income is 13,100... meanwhile, on the other end of the spectrum, the group whose average income is 1,405,000 would see a tax DECREASE of 211,000 dollars.

The poor pay a lot of taxes... not necessarily income taxes or taxes on dividends or capital gains... but they pay sales taxes on normal, everyday purchases just like you and me.
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Brant · Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject:

Under Ryan's plan, it seems as if the poor get poorer and the rich get richer. What a surprise.
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ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

busdriver · Journeyman Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 3497

ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

What are you talking about, Bus? This doesn't say what people making less than 50k pay... it only says how much more they'd pay under Ryan's plan
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busdriver · Journeyman Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 3497

ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

I don't dispute that, though I would like a quote from a speech or something...

What I am saying is that the graphic I posted doesn't say that people making less than 50k will pay any taxes under obama's plan... it doesn't say that they will or they won't... it just shows how much more they would pay under Ryan's tax plan.
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Cylinsier · Master Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-

busdriver · Journeyman Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 3497

busdriver · Journeyman Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 3497

How Obama would fix the economy
The Democratic presidential candidate supports extending unemployment benefits, making health coverage affordable for everyone -- and raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans.
By Judi Hasson, MSN Money
Barack Obama is a Democrat to the core.

In his campaign for the presidency, the Illinois senator is relying heavily on ideas that are well-established in the Democratic Party, hoping to convince the country that the party's historic commitment to working men and women is the best way to help the economy out of its rut and to reverse what he sees as growing inequity in American life.

Obama's take on the market

The struggles besetting the U.S. middle class will be a focal point for his campaign. He is calling for a combination of tax cuts and government spending to help working Americans. His program would include tax increases for the wealthy, the elimination of corporate tax subsidies and a windfall-profits tax on Big Oil.

Obama's economic game plan

"The choice we face right now is a choice between more of the same policies that have widened inequality, added to our debt and shaken the foundation of our economy, or change that will restore balance to our economy, that will invest in the ingenuity and innovation of our people, that will fuel a bottom-up prosperity to keep American strong and competitive in the 21st century," Obama said in a June speech on the economy.

Tell us: What should the next president do to fix the economy?

For starters, Obama wants an additional $50 billion economic-stimulus package on top of the $168 billion approved this year, supports expanded unemployment assistance to help those whose benefits have expired, a $10 billion foreclosure-prevention fund to help at-risk homeowners, government-subsidized health coverage and expanded retraining aid for workers who lose their jobs because of downsizing or outsourcing. Obama would invest $1 billion over five years in transitional jobs and career programs to help low-income Americans succeed in the work force.

Breakdown: Obama on 7 top issues

His agenda also includes:

An income-tax cut of up to $1,000 for each working family.
A homeowners tax credit worth about $500 per-household for those who do not receive the existing mortgage interest tax deduction.
The permanent extension of some provisions of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for taxpayers with annual incomes under $250,000 -- such as the $1,000 child tax credit.
The elimination of income taxes for seniors earning less than $50,000.
Obama's proposals

Obama also supports offsetting the effects of the Alternate Minimum Tax on families with incomes under $200,000, establishing a $4,000-per-year college tax credit in exchange for 100 hours of community service

per year, making community college free for most students, raising the minimum wage, increasing the earned-income tax credit and investing in alternative fuels to reduce energy costs over the long term.

Graph: Who's hit by the AMT?

For the wealthy, Obama has far different plans.

He has proposed letting the Bush administration's tax cuts expire for households earning more than $250,000, increasing the tax rate on capital gains and qualified dividends, and extending the Social Security payroll tax to those with incomes of more than $102,000 to help bolster the sagging retirement system.

"The general principle of raising taxes on higher-income Americans, like myself, and providing relief to those who haven't benefited as much from this new global economy, I think, is a sound one," Obama said during a campaign speech.

The senator also wants to stop tax-shelter abuses, curb offshore tax havens and eliminate special-interest loopholes and deductions for oil and gas companies and other industries.

Not every element of his program is orthodox Democratic policy. He has also spoken of cutting the corporate income tax to make the U.S. more competitive internationally as a base for corporate operations.

"The Republican playbook is to accuse Democrats of wanting to increase taxes on everyone," said James Kvaal, a former policy director for John Edwards and a senior fellow at the liberal New America Foundation. "The Democratic plan is really much better for the middle class."

But Daniel Mitchell, a senior fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute, sees it differently. He said Obama's tax-policy tilt and his move toward more government intervention is misguided and would hobble the U.S. economy.

"Bigger government, as a general rule, is going to be worse for an economy than a smaller government because labor and capital are more efficiently allocated by markets rather than politicians," Mitchell said.

The Tax Policy Center, a joint venture of the nonpartisan Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, has said that under the Obama plan, the largest tax cuts, as a share of income, would go to those with the lowest incomes, while higher-income households would see their taxes rise.

Adding up the dollars

The same report estimated that Obama's tax proposals, excluding those addressing health care, would reduce tax revenue by $2.7 trillion over the next 10 years, or approximately 7% of the revenue scheduled for collection under current law.

Obama maintains his program would spur economic growth and help average Americans. He also has said that his tax cuts would be offset, in part, by reducing congressional pork barrel spending, ending special corporate tax subsidies and government waste, and raising taxes on the wealthy. He has said that new spending or tax changes would be paid for by cuts to other programs or with new revenue.

Robert Bixby, the executive director of the Concord Coalition, a Washington, D.C., grass-roots organization that advocates responsible fiscal policies, has argued that Obama's program ignores the nation's skyrocketing federal deficit. In hard economic times there is a tendency to overcompensate and throw money after problems, Bixby said. He said Obama's plan, like GOP candidate John McCain's, could make an already troubling budget deficit worse.

"Obama has a lot of expensive promises," Bixby said. "I don't see the proposals for offsetting cost reductions or increased taxes for pay for this. You cannot offset the whole thing by saying you will roll back the tax cuts for the rich."

Obama has repeatedly blamed President Bush for mishandling the economy, taking the president to task for the mortgage crisis, job losses, sky-high gas prices, inflation in the cost of medical care and the lack of health insurance for about 47 million Americans. He maintains that McCain's platform would be a continuation of failed Bush policies.

McCain has countered that Obama's economic program consists of more federal taxes, more federal regulation, more government control of the economy and more government spending.

"No matter which of us wins in November, there will be change in Washington," the Arizona senator said in a campaign speech. "The question is, what kind of change? Will we enact the single largest tax increase since the Second World War, as my opponent proposes, or will we keep taxes low for families and employers? This election offers Americans a very distinct choice about what kind of change we will have."

Health coverage for all

Tax policy is not the only big difference between the two candidates. Their health care plans offer voters another distinct choice.

Obama has called for affordable, quality coverage for everyone, through a mixture of private insurance and expanded public programs. Employers offering health benefits would receive federal subsidies for offering catastrophic coverage. Those who chose not to offer benefits would contribute a percentage of their payroll outlays to finance the new public programs.

Chart: Rising costs of health insurance

Income-related federal subsidies would be available to help individuals who do not qualify for Medicaid or the State Children's Health Insurance Program; all children

would have health insurance; individuals could not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions; and all benefit packages would have to cover essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.

Chart: How much does health care cost?

McCain, in contrast, wants to detach health coverage from employers and instead give individuals a tax credit they could use to buy their own coverage on the open market. McCain would work with states to create insurance pools to help those who could not get coverage.

"You have two very ambitious health care plans. Obama wants to build on existing coverage, and McCain envisions a radically different system, where people shop for insurance on their own," said Kvaal, of the New America Foundation.

Dean Baker, an economist at the nonpartisan Center for Economic and Policy Research, said that if Obama succeeded in changing the health insurance rules to cover everyone at the same rate, regardless of health condition, the change would make a huge difference for middle-class families.

"Certainly for middle-class people, it would make it affordable," he said.

Obama describes health care as a pre-eminent issue and has said it "should be guaranteed for every American who wants it and affordable for every American who needs it."

"I don't want to wake up many years from now and see that even more Americans are uninsured and even more seniors can't afford prescription drugs and even more families are being driven to financial ruin trying to pay their bills because we failed to take on the drug and insurance companies and provide universal health care," Obama said in a campaign speech. "That's not the future I want for my children. That's not the future I want for your children."

Read more on the 2008 presidential campaign

Published June 30, 2008

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Cylinsier · Master Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-

Right. For seniors.
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