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freethinker
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Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: hardback chair
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 Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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In all honesty, bb, this issue should not be a platform to begin an
attack on the excessive use of police force....I agree with you that THAT is a real issue for discussion, but THIS is not THE case to hang an argument on....
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For instance, If I was a cop (god forbid) and knew what they (and I) knew,
I would have just shot the useless phucker
No drama, no debate...no film at eleven
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SSSS
Journeyman
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 3753
Location: Wash PA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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BB-question.
1. DId you see the police report? Not the one in the paper-you refer to "the police report".
2. The officer may have been too busy to be treated at the scene-it sounds like the paramedics were a tad busy with the prisoner. Maybe the officer was tough enough to know he was a lower priority at the time.
There is ALWAYS more to the story-open your mind.
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blackballed
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 1510
Location: north to south
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 1 NO...2 I GUESS ITS POSSIBLE .BB |
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zany
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
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My two cents worth for what it is worth........the reason this problem exist in the first place, in my opinion, was the passage of the ADA* that now allows all these individuals that clearly need to be institutionalized for their own well being, out in the general public and now the police have to find ways to deal with them. *(American Disabilities Act)
Some people just cannot be mainstreamed! It isn't their fault, but our fault for allowing them to be mainstreamed in with the general public! You can't even force them to take their medications which would be a great benefit to many. I feel bad for the police officers involved. They shouldn't have to deal with known mentally ill citizens being out here on the streets in the first place. It is a disaster just waiting to happen!!
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SSSS
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Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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Location: Wash PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:53 am Post subject: |
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This morning I saw a report from Arkansas where a police officer tased a ten year old girl AFTER asking her mother for permission. THAT is just wrong.
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dick
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| SSSS wrote: | | This morning I saw a report from Arkansas where a police officer tased a ten year old girl AFTER asking her mother for permission. THAT is just wrong. |
Its a different world down south.
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Cylinsier
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Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Oh shi-
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| SSSS wrote: | | This morning I saw a report from Arkansas where a police officer tased a ten year old girl AFTER asking her mother for permission. THAT is just wrong. |
That's too funny but also wrong.
Cop: "Ma'am, with your blessing, I'd be honored to apply electrical voltage to your daughter."
Mom: "You have my consent, young man."
Girl: "Mom, wtf!"
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blackballed
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| 4s did he get in any trouble?BB |
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SSSS
Journeyman
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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The report said he was on administrative leave pending investigation. And yes I know things are different south of the old Mason-Dixon.
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Amphikalein
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Joined: 10 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| zany wrote: | My two cents worth for what it is worth........the reason this problem exist in the first place, in my opinion, was the passage of the ADA* that now allows all these individuals that clearly need to be institutionalized for their own well being, out in the general public and now the police have to find ways to deal with them. *(American Disabilities Act)
Some people just cannot be mainstreamed! It isn't their fault, but our fault for allowing them to be mainstreamed in with the general public! You can't even force them to take their medications which would be a great benefit to many. I feel bad for the police officers involved. They shouldn't have to deal with known mentally ill citizens being out here on the streets in the first place. It is a disaster just waiting to happen!! |
The ADA doesn't block institutionalization. Cuts in funding to institutions and behavioral services starting in the 80s have led to people like that being out on the street. FYI, ADA compliance was one of my duties in my last job, and my brother has worked in the behavioral services field for 30 years, so i have some personal knowledge of the ADA and issues of the MI population.
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blackballed
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| i have to agree with amphy .BB |
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Amphikalein wrote: | | FYI, ADA compliance was one of my duties in my last job, and my brother has worked in the behavioral services field for 30 years, so i have some personal knowledge of the ADA and issues of the MI population. |
As a web designer, I have to work a lot with ADA compliance as well; Zany, I think you misunderstand the overarching purpose of the Act.
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zany
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | | Amphikalein wrote: | | FYI, ADA compliance was one of my duties in my last job, and my brother has worked in the behavioral services field for 30 years, so i have some personal knowledge of the ADA and issues of the MI population. |
As a web designer, I have to work a lot with ADA compliance as well; Zany, I think you misunderstand the overarching purpose of the Act. |
Well all I know is for over 35 years I have aided in caring for a mentally disabled person that was a neighbor of mine growing up. When his parents died his sister who lives out of state ask me to help her with her brother. He is a paranoid schizophrenia and his parents always took care of him in their home. We had to go find an attorney and go into court to have him declared incompetent so she could become his legal guardian. We have to file reports every year with the Orphans Court on his care and expenses. Of which we spend out of our pockets between her, myself and my son who is also involved in his care $5,000 to $6,000 which we do not mind doing, but anytime we need to do anything with him involving the Social Security Office we have to hire the attorney again and we have to take him into the office to sign paperwork which only confuses him more because even though the legal system knows he is mentally incompetent the Federal Government won't consider his legal status and makes us make him appear to sign his signature to his paperwork which he has no idea what he is signing.
The attorney we take along is for our own protection. They said because of the ADA he has to be there and sign his own name. Then it takes us about two weeks after those visits to calm him down because he suddenly believes he is rich and someone is stealing his money.....go figure!
Mayview is closing out, Western Center is gone and we were told because of the ADA if they weren't closed out & the people mainstreamed that PA would loose Federal Funding because they would be in violation of the ADA. I am only quoting what we were told.
Whenever I am awakened at 3AM in the morning to meet the ambluance taking him to the hospital due to his bizarre behavior and need of a medication adjustment I stand there while he is read his patient rights. Several times I requested that they not read him those rights because it tends to confuse him and he hears things they are not saying and results in more bizarre behavior on his part I am told because of the ADA they are required to read him his patient rights. Then we have to put up with several more weeks of him doing off the wall things and quoting to us, "I have rights now you know they were read to me by the nurse!" Yes he has rights and believe me between the three of us no one would dare mistreat him, but he doesn't have the rights to totally upset the personal care home where he "was" living by thinking he suddenly is in charge of everything from when breakfast is served to permitting him to sit up all night with his head stuck out of his bedroom window in freezing weather because he believes by doing so he controls making the sun appear. Notice I said personal care home where he "was" staying because after his exercising what he believed are his patient rights for several weeks we had to relocate him. This is only one example of many insane happenings we've dealt with over the years trying to see that he is not abused out here because of his mental condition. I am not complaining never would, just explaining how the ADA has not helped our cause.
Now had we not took it upon ourselves to see that he is well taken care of after his parents died he would have become mainstreamed and Lord only knows what would have happened to the poor soul that can't reason with the real world as we know it out here.
I just really feel bad for our police officers that have always had to deal with the criminal minded part of our society that now have to deal with the mentally ill being thrown out onto our streets & into the mix.
I could very well have a misunderstanding of the ADA but I only know from the times it was quoted to me it created more harm then good for the mentally disabled person I am involved with that it should be aiding and not disrupting.
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The realist adjusts the sails."
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zany
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Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | | Amphikalein wrote: | | FYI, ADA compliance was one of my duties in my last job, and my brother has worked in the behavioral services field for 30 years, so i have some personal knowledge of the ADA and issues of the MI population. |
As a web designer, I have to work a lot with ADA compliance as well; Zany, I think you misunderstand the overarching purpose of the Act. |
I should add the last time he was hospitalized in the mental ward and inspite of them knowing his sister is his legal guardian and I am on all the paperwork to consult with and having seen me with him during visitation hours and having them bring him to the telephone for me to speak with during off visiting hours they held a hearing there for him on continuing his stay without notifying me or his sister.....by the time I got to him he was so confused, upset and crying because he thought the hearing was too send him to jail.
It took me hours to calm him down. I was so upset that no one told us of this hearing. They said because of the ADA they didn't have too that they had representation present for him. I sometimes believe the system is crazier then he is, so we had to hire the attorney again to have him removed from their care and transferred to where they understood the need to notify us so one of us could be present if they decided to do anything with him to explain it all to him and keep him calmed down. We have been with him since we were kids so he does trust us somewhat.
It is like they do whatever they want to with him and disregard our legal documents and tell us because of ADA they can, he has rights, even though if you spent five minutes with him you would know he doesn't understand what those rights are.
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"The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails."
-William Arthur Ward- |
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busdriver
Journeyman
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 3497
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | | SSSS wrote: | | This morning I saw a report from Arkansas where a police officer tased a ten year old girl AFTER asking her mother for permission. THAT is just wrong. |
That's too funny but also wrong.
Cop: "Ma'am, with your blessing, I'd be honored to apply electrical voltage to your daughter."
Mom: "You have my consent, young man."
Girl: "Mom, wtf!" |
now that is just plain funny, this would work real good in a class room, trouble is, there are too many teachers who would enjoy it for the wrong reasons these days. |
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