Observer-Reporter forum

SSSS · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject:

well, the Civil War was more about the Federal government interferring in peoples lives and states rights much more than it was about slavery.
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Cylinsier · Master Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-

Yes, which always confused me. This country was born as a confederacy and that only lasted until 1788. As a union, we have survived from infancy, through civil war, through two world wars and the cold war, and domestically through famines and the great depression and most recently 9/11, and the government has been much more involved in our lives at times in the past than it is now, yet we remain devoted to our country as a people. As a confederacy, we lasted a bit more than a decade before it became obvious what a failure that system was.
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OndinitaAKALibchit · Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject:

Since my conservative friends love quoting Jefferson, let me quote Jefferson too:

"We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country." -Thomas Jefferson
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busdriver · Journeyman Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 3497

Ron Christman · Amature Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 56

SSSS – Again, sorry to take so long to get back to you but, in response to your comment, “Ron-you say I need to "do a little work" to look up your sources-it wasn't ME who put it out there as fact. It has become fairly consistent here when you put something up as a fact back it up with a link. Why would I do the work to try to prove you correct? If it is posted as opinion, fine but it is not a fact just because you type it. I asked for a reference and you say I should look it up????”, I did a little of the work for you. Here is what I found from a simple Google ‘cut and paste’ search:

Question #1 produced 2,620,000 hits for “Why are we the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have universal health care?” in 0.30 seconds. On the first page, the first ten hits produced several from pro-universal care sites but also 3-4 from legitimately non-partisan sites. All stated that the United States was the only industrialized country to not have universal health care.

Question #2 – See question #1. As I admitted earlier, it was a trick question to make the point that we are the only country in the industrialized world to deny care to any of our citizens.

Question #3 produced 536 hits for “Why do 35-40 other industrialized countries recognize that a healthy, productive workforce through universal health care makes them more competitive in a global marketplace?” in 0.36 seconds. Again, on page one there were a variety of (different) government reports that had health care contribution to productivity statements. I’m sure that if I altered my search statement that I would have gotten more hits.

In some cases you wouldn’t cut and paste the entire question such as with:

Question # 4 produced 81,100 hits for “administrative costs for Medicare are just 3% of the total expenditure and for private insurers are 14% of the total” in 0.38 seconds. Page one listed sources from both sides of the argument as well as several non-partisan sites and a long CBO report. The numbers varied slightly from site to site and one (foxbusiness.com) gave a rationale for why the question wasn’t “fair and balanced”.

Obviously it takes time to search through and read the data and assumptions for each question but, realistically, isn't that what it takes to engage in an honest debate on any subject?

Occasionally you can’t just put in the question but have to put in a more logical statement. Because of your fascination with France I went to Question #8 and got 118,000,000 hits for “Why do French men live three years longer than American men?” in 0.32 seconds. Unfortunately the first three results were:

1. Why are French men so irresistible

2. Ask a Frenchman!: Do Frenchmen love to be naked around each other?

3. Ask a Frenchman!: How do you date a French man?

I should have known the French would screw up an easy cut and paste search for me so I went the route that I usually do and used the statement: “French health care statistics” which produced 16,900,000 hits in 0.26 seconds. Virtually all of the first page of results were from legitimate sources.

I don’t think it is necessary for me to do a Google search for you on every question to make my point: It really isn’t hard to get informed and it really isn’t hard to answer questions with that information if “you do a little work”. I would think that you would want to have facts to back up your answers but you responded as virtually every other anti-Obama/anti-reform responder that attempted to answer the questions when I put them out on other sites over the last three months. Not once in dozens of attempts did a responder try to answer the questions with legitimate factual responses. Apparently, not one of the responders wanted to do the work to know the truth.

That is basically the problem with the whole health care reform issue and the current political divide in our country. Those who are for reform generally have the information to support their position. Those who are against reform have no or little factual data to support their position. At least not data that hasn’t been distorted somehow. Granted, several dozen attempts with approximately 2 ½ to 3 times the responses is not a large sample but doesn’t it say something that not one time did I get a legitimate, fact based, response.

Is it no wonder that I and my lefty friends think that a typical response from a naysayer would be, “. . . you like so many democrats since 2004 feel that anyone who has a different point of view from yours is stupid, uneducated, and a redneck.” Actually, I don’t think that at all; I just wonder why you don’t want to “do the work” to know the truth.

SSSS · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:23 am Post subject:

Ron-you with your obviously superior skills are missing my point entirely. I am fuly aware and capable of doing research on the computer-I do it every day for work and wish I had more time to do it for leasure.
But my POINT was this-YOU posted things with no link or proof-YOU didn't do the work, yet berate me for responding without any "proof" You offered things as facts with no link to back up your statement. I assumed it was your OPINION and I responded in kind.
I hope this helps. I am going back to clinging to my bible and my guns now.
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Brant · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:26 am Post subject:

SSSS, might I suggest that you change your avatar to this:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cs.cornell.edu/nystrom/images/Antietam/fullsize/hf-john-brown.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cs.cornell.edu/nystrom/images/Antietam/pages/page_17.html&usg=__KmKI1-z8J71akvpfrkwfDBotK4I=&h=1005&w=1600&sz=549&hl=en&start=4&sig2=b4xw4PKcJrpN_73Xl9Gx_w&um=1&tbnid=MNOyol6SMufvBM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJohn%2BBrown%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=Qcn6SqL-Ko-qlAfqt4i6Aw Laughing

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dick · Journeyman Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 3134

Yeah, thats pretty much how I picture him.

Laughing

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amom · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:26 am Post subject:

Yeah, that's SSSS all right. Laughing

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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"

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OndinitaAKALibchit · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:28 am Post subject:

Cylinsier · Master Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-

I didn't realize John Brown was such a huge dude.
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Ron Christman · Amature Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 56

SSSS - When are you going to stop whining about the same old thing. I put out questions (yes, without links, Gawd forbid) that were easily supportable with facts and you answered them without doing any work to support your statements. It's as simple as that. It's not misreading your statements nor misconstruing what you really mean. It doesn't matter that you are capable of doing it, you just didn't do it. It's simply that you didn't get the job done and you are whining because you got called for it.

I disagree with the avatar that has been suggested for you (and other right wingers). I know that is the way most on the right would like to see themselves but because of responses like yours, I see most right wingers just as your current avatar shows you, except with a runny nose and tears in the eyes.

C'mon, man up and do the job or just drop the whole thing.

SSSS · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject:

I like it but I hesitate putting my own pic here-someone mught recognize me!!!
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freethinker · Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject:

wow, Ron, dude...Chill out...and please don't be rude to SSSS... He's
the most rational and reasonable person on this site...He has earned
respect for his intelligence, experience and ability to listen...
(And he certainly doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him...)
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where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon.

Cylinsier · Master Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-

Amom is the most rational and reasonable person on the site. I think we will all agree on that.
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