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freethinker
Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: hardback chair
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 Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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That's the problem, Cy...I'm really torn...I know most religion is
money-making propaganda...a business that preys on the needy..
But that 'thing' that the congregation needs, that thing that the religion sells them, is also the thing that I need...the thing that science does
not offer...
And I feel like shit when I transform science into a religion, or allow God
to exist somewhere outside of my personal reality...And I'm not sure which way to go...
Sorry for being so personal. Having it hard lately. Thank you.
_________________
where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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busdriver
Journeyman
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 3497
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| OndinitaAKALibchit wrote: | | Brant wrote: | | I think there are many people, like me, who believe Jesus walked the earth but was not a supernatural being. |
I'm one of those people! I also think the historical Jesus was actually way more impressive & revolutionary than the "magical Jesus" of the Bible... |
No doubt Jesus walked the Earth, heck, ever hear of 1000BC and 2009 AD? |
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Cylinsier
Master
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 13229
Location: Oh shi-
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| freethinker wrote: | That's the problem, Cy...I'm really torn...I know most religion is
money-making propaganda...a business that preys on the needy..
But that 'thing' that the congregation needs, that thing that the religion sells them, is also the thing that I need...the thing that science does
not offer...
And I feel like chit when I transform science into a religion, or allow God
to exist somewhere outside of my personal reality...And I'm not sure which way to go...
Sorry for being so personal. Having it hard lately. Thank you. |
I think having it hard comes with the territory when you decide you are going to think for yourself and make you own decisions in life instead of following the crowd for the sake of following. In other words, its a consequence of using that piece of flesh in your skull! And why is it there if not to use?
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OndinitaAKALibchit
Journeyman
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 3883
Location: Where the sun don't shine! ;-)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| freethinker wrote: | That's the problem, Cy...I'm really torn...I know most religion is
money-making propaganda...a business that preys on the needy..
But that 'thing' that the congregation needs, that thing that the religion sells them, is also the thing that I need...the thing that science does
not offer...
And I feel like chit when I transform science into a religion, or allow God
to exist somewhere outside of my personal reality...And I'm not sure which way to go...
Sorry for being so personal. Having it hard lately. Thank you. |
Free...I have strange religious beliefs, including what Cy said about believing that God is the cause of science (maybe I'll go into that at a later time). I still participate and belong to a traditional Church. I also believe in science. Faith doesn't need to be blind to reason.
_________________
"If by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties ... if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I’m proud to say I’m a 'Liberal.'" ~ Senator John F. Kennedy 9/14/1960
Proud Member NDA |
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freethinker
Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: hardback chair
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Cy, for your friendly words...I still don't know where to go..
At the end of science lies quantum uncertainty and singularities that
betray the laws of physics...On the other hand, i have a God who never
returns my calls...Tough choice, right..?
And one of the beauties of free will, is the ability to delay a choice...
Now I gotta go to work.
God bless you all..!
_________________
where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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JD
Amature
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Can an honest scientist believe in a real Jesus..? |
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| freethinker wrote: |
Is it possible, within one's own mind, to reconcile an acceptance of the
complete truth of the scientific method, along with an equal and
parallel acceptance of an active, personal God...? |
Yes, it is possible.
Science explains HOW things happened.
For Christian’s, the Bible explains WHY things happened.
I have no problem with believing in Creationism AND Evolution. I believe God created the Earth and all life on it. I don’t believe he did it in 6 24 hour long days. I had a great argument once with a Christian friend who believed the literal story in Genesis. We debated back and forth, neither willing to give. Finally I asked him, “COULD God have created the world over millions of years instead of 6 days?” He replied, “of course, God can do anything.” He stood there for a few seconds and I could tell it was the first time he TRULY thought about what he believed.
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JD
...The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program. - Ronald Reagan |
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OndinitaAKALibchit
Journeyman
Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 3883
Location: Where the sun don't shine! ;-)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Can an honest scientist believe in a real Jesus..? |
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| JD wrote: | | freethinker wrote: |
Is it possible, within one's own mind, to reconcile an acceptance of the
complete truth of the scientific method, along with an equal and
parallel acceptance of an active, personal God...? |
Yes, it is possible.
Science explains HOW things happened.
For Christian’s, the Bible explains WHY things happened.
I have no problem with believing in Creationism AND Evolution. I believe God created the Earth and all life on it. I don’t believe he did it in 6 24 hour long days. I had a great argument once with a Christian friend who believed the literal story in Genesis. We debated back and forth, neither willing to give. Finally I asked him, “COULD God have created the world over millions of years instead of 6 days?” He replied, “of course, God can do anything.” He stood there for a few seconds and I could tell it was the first time he TRULY thought about what he believed. |
Yeah...Some people believe without putting any thought into it...It's good to get people to think!
_________________
"If by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties ... if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I’m proud to say I’m a 'Liberal.'" ~ Senator John F. Kennedy 9/14/1960
Proud Member NDA |
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freethinker
Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: hardback chair
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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work delayed, so time for one more observation..
religion provides explanation without any proof, and science provides
proof, without explanation...(sorry, JD, if I mangled your meaning)
I think I will continue to cohabit both worlds, and view each system as
an equal and different search for the truth...Both seem to be efficient
and opposite sides of the same tool...
And it certainly is nice to share these beliefs and doubts with caring
and intelligent fellows...Thank you.
_________________
where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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busdriver
Journeyman
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 3497
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| freethinker wrote: | That's the problem, Cy...I'm really torn...I know most religion is
money-making propaganda...a business that preys on the needy..
But that 'thing' that the congregation needs, that thing that the religion sells them, is also the thing that I need...the thing that science does
not offer...
And I feel like chit when I transform science into a religion, or allow God
to exist somewhere outside of my personal reality...And I'm not sure which way to go...
Sorry for being so personal. Having it hard lately. Thank you. |
Free, sometimes when things seem to be overwhelming, and you begin to doubt too much, just step away for a while and just simply pray without thinking of anything earthly. The mind needs a break once in a while too. |
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Amphikalein
Journeyman
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3177
Location: Corrales, NM
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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What people mean when they refer to the "real Jesus" can be a tricky thing to pin down, imo. The historical Jesus? Their particular idolized (not idealized, though that too) conception of Jesus?
Still, i would argue that it is possible for a scientist to honestly profess the Christian faith without being a hypocrite. But i'm an Episcopalian and we generally don't require people to leave their brains at the church door.  Wikipedia (i know, i know - but the article is well sourced) has an entry about scientists both living & dead who were Christians. Scroll down about 3/4 of the way through the article to see the list of those still living.
_________________
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.
"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
Amphy's blog | Proud Member NDA
Last edited by Amphikalein on Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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amom
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: You can't get here from there
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think of this question now and again myself. I use ason as an example: He is at college majoring in chemistry (can't get much more scientific than that), but is also president of the campus Catholic Student Association. He seems to have no problem balancing the two. 
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-amom
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
- Will Rogers |
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busdriver
Journeyman
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 3497
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| amom wrote: | | I think of this question now and again myself. I use ason as an example: He is at college majoring in chemistry (can't get much more scientific than that), but is also president of the campus Catholic Student Association. He seems to have no problem balancing the two. |
You and adad get the credit for how well you raised ason. ason is a very lucky young man. |
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amom
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: You can't get here from there
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| busdriver wrote: |
You and adad get the credit for how well you raised ason. ason is a very lucky young man. |
Thank you. 
_________________
-amom
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
- Will Rogers |
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freethinker
Professional
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 1352
Location: hardback chair
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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New day, new sun...same old forum...and after twenty hours of harrowing fear, frightening text
messages, multiple pots of coffee, two international flights and a near
nervous breakdown...my little girl is finally safe with relatives in Oregon...
I relate this personal info within this thread because it is superbly
relevant...I was not a liar when i prayed to a God I could never prove..
Just desperate... And the comfort was delivered by the kind words of you people...
And though the arguments and contentions expressed here will obviously continue, I
wish to express my thanks for your concern, and promise to extend
the same best wishes when it is your time of need...
Perhaps this heralds the beginning of a new 'digital' religion...
Again, thank you. We are truly blessed
_________________
where-ever you get it - there you have it. - Anon. |
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amom
Mod
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: You can't get here from there
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I am happy she is safe and I hope you never have to go through that type of experience again. Peace to you.
_________________
-amom
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
- Will Rogers |
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