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Cylinsier
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 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I blogged on this:
http://ellipticalpress.blogspot.com/
BB, if we had single payer, you wouldn't have to face fines for not having coverage. You would just be covered. No insurance card, no paperwork, you just feel sick, go to the doc, pay 5 bucks for your pills and leave. That's that.
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george
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| ellipses wrote: | So, how should I decide how much or how little I want?
Should I buy insurance against the things that I am MOST likely to suffer from? Heart disease, diabetes, and cancer (family history)... What happens if I end up with MS and didn't think to by MS insurance?
Health insurance is different than life insurance or auto insurance... It's not like I can say, well, I drive a beat up clunker so I'll just get minimum coverage... I can choose to insure myself against cold and flu, but I could still end up with cancer, a heart attack and monkey pox. |
Well, you could get full coverage with varing deductibles; or you could get catastrophic coverage (cancer, heart attack/failure, MS, MD, etc) with varing deductibles and cover minor office visits and non lifethreating injuries (broken arm) out of pocket.
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george
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Brant wrote: | | The phrase "you can afford" is the key failure in your argument, George. In this country, one person should not be getting better health care than his neighbor just because he can afford it. Of course, your central argument has always seemed to be that the poor or even those in the struggling middle class should just die and get out of the way. |
I have never said anyone should die and get out of the way. However they should stop expecting the rest of us to pony up everytime they want or need something. I might even be open to sharing some of the cost WITH them but never paying all of thier cost for anything.
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ellipses
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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That would be way too expensive... I'd avoid going in for routine care so that I could afford my deductible if I broke my arm... then I'd develop diabetes and advanced cancer because I'm not getting screened, so the only part of my insurance that will actually be used is the catastrophic insurance... which will drive up the cost of the insurance.
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george
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | | george wrote: | | Ummm. Most people say no. Thats not what the media keeps saying. Yhet need to quit slanting the news to their political ideology. |
Don't know what "media" you are referring to, but countless unbiased polls reveal a slight to clear margin in favor of some form of health care reform that includes either non-profit co-ops, a public option, or single payer.
I for one had decided I'm not longer in favor of the public option. Its not strong enough, has a great potential to fail do to the power of the health care industry, and when it does it will be used as an example of why the government can't run anything. As of now, I am in favor of single payer. Health care companies have no business existing, no pun intended. |
Enough of a majority don't want this that many dems won't support any public option fearing they won't be re-elected.
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ellipses
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Please, anyone, provide ONE benefit that a private, for-profit insurer brings to the table that a public plan would not be able to offer... |
Tick... Tock...
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Cylinsier
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george
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| ellipses wrote: | | Quote: | | Please, anyone, provide ONE benefit that a private, for-profit insurer brings to the table that a public plan would not be able to offer... |
Tick... Tock... |
The private plans will not raise my taxes or bankruot the country. Its not the insurance comapnies that control health costs. It the hospitals, doctors and lawyers.
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| george wrote: | | The private plans will not raise my taxes or bankrupt the country. |
The private industry IS CURRENTLY BANKRUPTING THE COUNTRY.
Let us know when you decide to wake up to reality. [/b]
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dick
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Who is telling people that this program will bankrupt the country? Like Cylinser said, the current system has us paying for the uninsured anyway. Since we're already covering them, why not cover the costs with taxes instead of furthering out debt and tacking on interest.
I don't blame anyone for not understanding this fully. There is a lot to comprehend. But please, get some of the basics down. |
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Amphikalein
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| blackballed wrote: | | who really knows what WILL be in obama care? it changes almost daily, i have been watching our government argue and get nothing done.our elected officials are a joke..i can tell you no one will tell me that i have to get it ,or face fines.BB |
Democratic legislative processes aren't pretty, that's for sure.
Some kind of strong public option is essential for meaningful health care industry reform, imho.
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busdriver
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| george wrote: | | Brant wrote: | | The phrase "you can afford" is the key failure in your argument, George. In this country, one person should not be getting better health care than his neighbor just because he can afford it. Of course, your central argument has always seemed to be that the poor or even those in the struggling middle class should just die and get out of the way. |
I have never said anyone should die and get out of the way. However they should stop expecting the rest of us to pony up everytime they want or need something. I might even be open to sharing some of the cost WITH them but never paying all of thier cost for anything. |
You won't have to say die, the stress of figuring this out( assuming it ever happens) will probably kill them any how. |
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george
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Cylinsier wrote: | | george wrote: | | The private plans will not raise my taxes or bankrupt the country. |
The private industry IS CURRENTLY BANKRUPTING THE COUNTRY.
Let us know when you decide to wake up to reality. [/b] |
What is bankrupting the country is health care COST. Insurance firms negoicate the cost down as far as possible but thy do not set the cost of health care any more that car insurance firms set the price of car repairs. Wake up to that reality.
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ellipses
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Doctors and hospitals inflate the price to whatever the insurance company is willing to pay (which, is how much they extract in premiums)... The only time they negotiate the price down is when they start losing money on a procedure that they didn't think would be performed as often as it is...
If insurance companies negotiated the price DOWN and that was the primary driver of costs in the industry, why are aspirin at a hospital 10 dollars a pill?
Why wouldn't the insurance company say "we'll pay you a nickel an aspirin, because that's what it costs." ??
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Cylinsier
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| george wrote: | | What is bankrupting the country is health care COST. Insurance firms negoicate the cost down as far as possible. |
Yeah, okay, keep believing that. Never mind the fact that Insurance company profits are through the roof over the last decade. Oh, facts are soooo inconvenient:
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/08/05/are-health-insurers-making-too-much-money/
| Quote: | | Within the context of companies’ revenues, insurers skim off 15-20 percent of premium dollars for administrative costs and profits. In fact, an examination of insurers’ medical loss ratio — the fraction of revenue from a plan’s premiums that goes to pay for medical services– suggests that within the last 10 years, insurers have been spending less on medical care and more on administrative costs or profits |
From the same article:
| Quote: | | The top five earning insurance companies averaged profits of $1.56 billion in 2008 and reported spending an average of “more than 18 percent of their revenues on marketing, administration, and profits.” That year, CEO compensation for these companies ranged from $3 million to $24 million.” Below is a partial list of insurer/CEO profits: |
And according to that data, CIGNA profited $292,000,000 in 2008. Over $30,000,000 went to CEOs and nothing else. CEOS! Are you fu**ing kidding me with this chit? That comes out to $120,000,000 over 5 years that did nothing but buy benzes and beach houses. One hundred and twenty MILLION DOLLARS our YOUR hard earned money is a penthouse suite and a hooker in new york for the son of the guy that owns CIGNA. Jesus Christ george, open your eyes.
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