Observer-Reporter forum

ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

I don't intend this post to be anti-religious in any way, shape or form...

The issue of religion and religion's role in society, culture, and law arises with relative regularity. I am an atheist. I like to think of myself as a relatively well-informed atheist. Below are 5 questions that I find Christianity to be lacking a legitimate response to. Feel free to offer any additional questions, or even answers to these questions...

1. On the issue of the Bible being the actual word of God... Which parts are to be taken literally and which parts are to be taken metaphorically? Why? Why can we say that some parts are representative while other parts are the absolute commandment from God?

2. Why does the bible end? God is the alpha and the omega... omnipotent and all powerful... possessing knowledge of all that ever was, is and ever will be... So why is his word a finite script? It starts at one point and ends at another... why do we not continue to add to it? I understand the concept of absolute truth... but the bible is chock-full of actual events... so why is it constrained between point a and point b? Won't it be considerably less relevant 10,000 years from now as a consequence of not growing to include the sum total of human existence?

3. Why was God so interactive between the beginning of the old testament and the end of the new testament?He seems to be talking to people left and right... doing stuff to mess with the world... He seems tangible and "real" in that he is really meddlesome in the lives of man... But then, all of a sudden, he's "gone"... It seems that if you talked to God 2,000 years ago, you were enshrined in a book enjoyed by BILLIONS of people... if you talk to God today, you are a loon.

4. Why all the fragmentation? Christianity is one of thousands of religions that have been conceived of by humans throughout the course of our history... A few belief systems have "risen to the top"... but still, only about 30% of the earth's population follows the Jesus story... And of those people, there are something like 33,820 denominations of Christianity... Some of their differences are petty... but some are REALLY consequential... like whether wine and bread ACTUALLY and LITERALLY turns into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. That's a big sticking point... it either does or it doesn't... and a lot of people hedge their everlasting souls on points that only a relative few other people agree with them on. It seems like it's either really easy to get into heaven, or heaven is a really empty place.

5. Quoting... Why is it that gigantic issues are resolved in the minds of Christians by referring to a single sentence or passage in the bible? Most "off-the-shelf" bibles are in excess of 13,000 pages... yet you can point to a sentence and extrapolate a universal truth from a piece of relatively inconsequential dialog... I don't see why one statement made in the context of one situation is applicable to all of humanity forever... it's like this: "And Mrs. E said unto E 'art thou hungry for a sandwich?' and to that E responded 'no, I do not want a sandwich.'" And then you take that to mean that I should NEVER eat a sandwich EVER... and anyone who eats sandwiches will go to hell...
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Brant · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject:

I'll add one. Why do some Christians insist on "interpreting" the Book of Revelation in ways that suggest the verses are referring to events and places in modern times, when it very clearly was written for immediate consumption with the idea that the big guy was coming back lickety split. The were talking about the "end times" 2,000 years ago, and they're been talking about them ever since, but the "end times" never come.
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The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.

- Thomas Jefferson

Amphikalein · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject:

¡Ai, que va!

You guys don't half ask some hard questions! i'll try to take a stab at suggesting some possible perspectives. It will have to wait until later today or tomorrow, though, 'cause i have to get my brain working overtime.
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.

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ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

Amph... that was my blog post for today... I was going to go for the "impressive list that is really really long" but it took too long to couch my first 5 questions...

I could have done 50 or so single line items, but I figured I'd round it off at a simple 5.

Here's the thing... I really REALLY enjoy Christianity... I mean, it's kinda hard to justify picking up a BA in MEDIEVAL ENGLISH LITERATURE at a 40k per year college if you aren't GENUINELY captivated by some of the material... I mean for F***'s sake, I named my son Chaucer!

But "Christianity" is so much bigger than the Bible... the bible, on it's own, is woefully short on being water-tight... however, a whole set of "fill-ins" have been created... which sorta kinda makes the bible a perpetually living document... kinda like the amendments to the constitution, actually...

But so many people seem to take those undisputedly (is that a word) man-made conventions and interpret it as the actual will of God... these are arbitrary little sub-stories that can be changed on a whim... and HAVE changed, through time...

I mean, if it weren't for all the auxiliary stuff that comes in the "Christianity Box"... one would be hard pressed to see a "religion" built around just the bible... I mean, if there was no such thing as Christianity... and you took a big bag full of books, including the bible... and dumped them in someone's driveway... and made them read them all and develop a religion based on one of them... there's no guarantee that they would pick the Bible as their model.
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Amphikalein · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject:

i've got no argument with that, e. As my priest once told me "The Bible didn't fall from the sky in a ziploc baggie". My take on the good book is that it is the God-breathed record of a peoples' understanding of their historical relationship with God. Among other things. It's not a finite book to me, but rather a complex collection in which i'm forever finding new revalations and inspirations. It certainly isn't the sole basis for the Christian faith. Relying on 'sola scriptura' alone is a relatively modern, fundamentalist Protestant idea. There are also the traditions of the church, historical texts like the Didache and writings of the church fathers & mothers. i'm currently reading a book on the writings & concepts developed by the Desert Fathers & Mothers in the first few centuries of the Church. Right now, however, i've got to get some paperwork done & over to Blue Cross / Blue Shield in the next 45 minutes!
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~Martin Luther King Jr.

"May we, in our dealings with all the peoples of the earth, ever speak the truth and serve justice." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower

Amphy's blog | Proud Member NDA

dick · Journeyman Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 3134

I love you guys... this stuff is great.

Brant · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject:

Can't wait to read the answers, if we get any.
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The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.

- Thomas Jefferson

ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

I have confidence that Amph will provide some really compelling arguments...
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Brant · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:

I'm sure he will. He's a good man. I was referring to the lunatic fringe. Wink

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The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.

- Thomas Jefferson

Cylinsier · Master Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 13229 Location: Oh shi-

Brant · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject:

There's not a whole lot of "live and let live" in some of those folks.
_________________

The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.

- Thomas Jefferson

Brant · Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject:

And they're playing a large role in killing the Republican Party. Reagan is probably rolling in his grave after watching his party sell out to that crowd.
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The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.

- Thomas Jefferson

ellipses · Mod Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 9218 Location: WashPa!

Don't all chime in at once... Smile

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Brant · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:13 am Post subject:

Listen to those crickets.
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The priests of the different religious sects dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight.

- Thomas Jefferson

PlainJane · Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:52 am Post subject:

I will be back to discuss the Bible, ellipses, but now I have to get ready for work. I know most on this forum do not like me, but you have been respectful. I think you want to find the truth, and I like that. We all want the truth and for me it lies in the Bible. It is my measuring stick...if it doesn't line up with it, I reject it. Call it close-minded, but Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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